Brittany S. Hale 0:32

Hi Brittany .

Karen McFarlane 0:36

It's been a week . It's been a week , you know , been a year of a week over here . I know , I know , but you know , I think you know , every week we talk about , you know , the drama that's going on in the world . I'm not saying that you know , I love the drama . Well , I like drama , not the drama that's been happening . Let me just correct that .

Brittany S. Hale 0:54

I like to observe it , not to be involved you know .

Karen McFarlane 0:59

But you know , maybe just have fun this week . What do you think ?

Taking a Break from Heavy News

Brittany S. Hale 1:03

I think so . I think the energy's been pretty heavy . You know , there's power in seeking joy . Yeah , even in the darkest of places .

Karen McFarlane 1:15

Yeah , exactly . So let's have fun with this week . Talk about different drama , different types of drama that's happening in the world .

Brittany S. Hale 1:21

Okay .

Karen McFarlane 1:25

It might not all be that fun , but at least it's just a different . It's a different angle , absolutely Listen .

Brittany S. Hale 1:30

As a pop culture connoisseur , can I tell you there's been a lot going on and our executive producer , mina , has been telling me there's all sorts of things happening in the zeitgeist that she's about to discuss .

Karen McFarlane 1:47

All right , mina . What's the first topic ? What's been going on ?

Brittany S. Hale 1:52

Well , she is a Housewives fan . Uh-huh well , she is a housewives fan , uh-huh , and there's a lot , a lot going on within the housewives , particularly around . I'd like your opinion on wealth worthception , specifically as it pertains to the real housewives of Beverly Hills .

Karen McFarlane 2:19

Hmm .

Brittany S. Hale 2:21

Now these tend to

Real Housewives Wealth Drama Begins

Brittany S. Hale 2:23

at least they're perceived as the wealthiest housewives , right , because they have these palatial homes in Beverly Hills , california . There's tons of space , there's jewels and handbags and $7,000 toasters and all sorts of things and , as has kind of become customary for housewives , there's at least one housewife who seems to be going through some financial trouble , right , or appears to be going through some financial trouble , while also dealing with marital issues , perhaps dealing with marital issues because of the financial trouble . Nevertheless , these women are invited to a caftans and caviar party . If you're unfamiliar with what a caftan is , it's a big , long , flowy fabric .

Karen McFarlane 3:29

Looks quite breathable , quite comfy . Yes , and I think Jennifer Tilly said something like it covers up well . This is what it . You know . It covers up well . I was what I say . It covers up all the evils . I don't think she used that word , but that's what she meant . It is an inclusive garment .

Brittany S. Hale 3:46

Anyone can wear it right um . And this is her baked potato party , where the baked potatoes would be topped with the finest caviar that one could buy .

Karen McFarlane 4:00

Not the orange , because the orange caviar is very cheap .

Brittany S. Hale 4:04

Yeah , I believe that's the salmon roe . Yes , that you can get at your local sushi spot .

Karen McFarlane 4:10

They made a very big point of pointing that out for all of us on television , right big point of pointing that out for all of us on television , right ?

Brittany S. Hale 4:22

so we now have two housewives who are in conflict , and conflict is customary on housewives is part of why we watch , to see how people choose to engage in conflict , how they respond , and you know how people at least attempt to resolve it Right , typically at the reunion before the next season . But in this situation you have one woman , dorit , who is going through a separation with her husband , as well as financial issues . You have another woman , sutton , who is wealthy due to her divorce from her husband . She's a very generous alimony package , something to the effect of 300 plus thousand dollars a month . I think that's more than generous like quite , I would not have any complaints .

Karen McFarlane 5:17

No .

Brittany S. Hale 5:17

But they're arguing and another housewife interjects , erica , who had her fair share of financial troubles and you know her husband was indicted for misuse of funds as a personal injury attorney . As a personal injury attorney . But she says to her do you think you're bigger than her Speaking to Sutton about Dorit ? And Sutton responds I'm going to have a conflict .

Karen McFarlane 5:45

I'm going to have an ongoing conflict .

Brittany S. Hale 5:47

Do you remember what Sutton says ?

Karen McFarlane 5:50

I think my wallet is I think my wallet is .

Brittany S. Hale 5:54

What was your response ? How did you watching that in real time ? What did you think ?

Karen McFarlane 6:00

I was dumbfounded that someone would be as bold as to say that you know , especially given where her money came from . I mean , it may be a fact , I have no idea what their individual finances are , but I thought it was a super low , classless thing to say . It was low to say to someone who you know more intimately than we , as the audience knows , about her issues financial but also just relationship-wise , going through this like she's in a very hurt and difficult place . And then it was just classless to say in general , especially at a table with I don't know , maybe there's like 10 , 12 women there to do that . I was dumbfounded and I found it was just very mean but also very telling of you know , to your original question , like what do you think worth means as an individual ? And apparently in Sutton's view it is tied to your wallet .

Brittany S. Hale 7:08

Absolutely , and this also , uh , this , this jogged my memory Also , this jogged my memory . Do you watch ?

Karen McFarlane 7:18

White Lotus . I haven't watched .

Brittany S. Hale 7:19

It's on my list of ones to watch , we're going to have to have another episode . It's fantastic , no spoilers . But there is a character who comes from a moneyed family . Her husband's very wealthy and he comes from generational wealth , and they're invited onto a yacht on vacation . And it's a family and the mother is very hesitant .

Brittany S. Hale 7:43

She says , well , we don't know these people , we don't even know if they're decent . And so her son says , well , they're rich , they have a yacht . And she says , well , I don't know them , I don't know they're rich and therefore we need to bypass any sort of further inspection of them because we automatically find them to be worthy , whether it's of our time building relationships , whatever . And so when this mom , she says , well , I don't know if they're decent , meaning that she needed them to be rich in a particular way , she needed to know how they got their money .

Brittany S. Hale 8:37

And so her son says , well , you go to the country club all the time . And she goes well , that's different , because I know them and they know me . And so when she said that , I said okay , so it's not only just making sure that she's kind of checking the car facts , checking the wallet facts , right , to make sure that these people have not only money but the right type of money . But in that sentence I know them and they know me . She needs to make sure that any environment she puts herself in , she will be perceived as a person of high

When Money Equals Character

Brittany S. Hale 9:18

worth and she's not willing to risk being in an environment where that worth isn't recognized and respected .

Karen McFarlane 9:30

I mean , in some ways I understand this point right Well , one , historically , if we go back to many centuries ago , right , like worth was determined by you know how much money you had , how much you could , you know land you owned and how many times .

Karen McFarlane 9:48

We also can apply some of those and your time and your gifts right In whatever way . So in some ways I understand the mentality around that . It just gets amplified when you move into these spaces , and even new money versus old money , that's a whole other language that one needs to learn and why that matters in any meaningful way . I also feel like and this is from some of my own experiences witnessing things right , like when you are around people with like a lot of money , right , there's not a lot of people that can relate to that , because most people are somewhere here . There's very few people that are up here at the top , and so your lifestyle and your lifestyle changes , your environment changes , how you have to roll changes right , because you have to operate at this higher level , and so there becomes this distance that's in some ways unavoidable and the conversations change , and so it kind of just perpetuates this sentiment , right , and this um , this split between the haves and the have nots .

Brittany S. Hale 11:48

Absolutely , and you know there's . We always signal that where we are , whether it is the type of phone you have , clothing , how you wear your hair , how you travel , right Vague references to where you travel , how you describe traveling Do you summer places or do you go on vacation ?

Brittany S. Hale 12:20

Right aspirational activity of naming your child and how , every now and then , names , the popularity of baby names will shift , because there's always this effort from the have-nots to try to clamber up in social status by naming their child something that they believe is a moneyed name , and that very same effort by the haves to distinguish themselves by using names that are distinct and again other themselves in a way that they can signal to one another who they are Right . And so when I think about this , it makes sense when you have resources , you want to continue to have resources , you want to grow access to those resources .

Brittany S. Hale 13:36

We've heard phrases , like you know your network , is your net worth , things like that ? But I also think especially in the United States , because we don't have traditional caste systems in the way that you might in Europe or Asia or Africa you know , there are other places around the world .

Brittany S. Hale 14:01

The US is an experiment right , and you know , from its inception you had DEI right when white men who weren't landowners were allowed to vote , and that really changed the game in terms of representation . But within the United States there is this perception that the more money you have , we begin to attribute certain character traits to people outside of just how much money they have . We believe they are smarter , better looking , better people . Generally right , you are good because you are rich . You have to be of good character because you are rich . And I think about the way that we describe behaviors . So at this particular point in time , we have a tech billionaire who has a what is 14 children by five different women , and when we describe those women we talk about the mothers of his children .

Wealth Perception and Social Signaling

Karen McFarlane 15:14

Right .

Brittany S. Hale 15:15

And we when he is described . Very often , if you ask a lay person , they will say he is a genius , and when you ask them why ? Well , he has a billion dollars , right ? So he therefore must be very , very smart , and we don't question having 14 children by five different women . We don't question those women who largely remain kind of hidden there's only a few that are in the public eye but we certainly don't question his decision-making with having them .

Brittany S. Hale 15:54

We just say , well , he's a billionaire , he can afford them , and then we tap out However if your colleague told you they had 14 different children by five different women , what would your response ?

Karen McFarlane 16:17

be . I mean to be honest , right , I don't care how many children you have , as long as you're taking care of them .

Brittany S. Hale 16:25

I really don't .

Karen McFarlane 16:26

Fair and that they're well-provided for the mothers , cause I'm going to assume it's multiple . Not one person can have 14 , right , 14 by five . They're taking care of them . You know , maybe you think it's your job to populate the earth , but I need you to be focused on them having good being , human being , good humans . My main concern , though , is that I don't . I don't know , being a mother of one right , how you focus on 14 different children equally and in a way that is going to make them well-rounded people . I don't know how to do that . Maybe other people have figured that out . That would be my concern , but I do understand that that description , if applied to somebody else , that description if applied to somebody else , this person has five baby mamas . He a baby daddy right , it's completely different .

Brittany S. Hale 17:31

And even that phrase right Going from the mother of his children to a baby mama , immediately in your mind . If you're listening , watching , you have a vision of what that person looks like .

Karen McFarlane 17:41

Karen , if .

Brittany S. Hale 17:41

I came on here and I said , oh my gosh , I met this guy . He's really really great . He's also really great with kids . He has 14 of them and there are five moms . I'm going to put words in your mouth , but I'm guessing that you would say no .

Karen McFarlane 17:59

Yeah , I would be alarmed for that question . Okay , I'll be like are they all over 18 ?

Brittany S. Hale 18:12

Okay , is there anyone else ? I think there would be a lot of questions right . And so these are the moments where I think about wealth and worth , because we could interchange and say , oh you know , this tech billionaire has five baby mamas , but that's not how he's described in the press . That's not , you know . There's a very marked difference and I think that we are perhaps unfairly , but definitely subconsciously , attributing certain character traits based on wealth or perceived wealth wealth , or perceived wealth , and in part , it's because wealth helps you attain certain things , right .

Karen McFarlane 19:05

So you know , a couple of things you talked about is being smarter , looking better , dressing nicer . I mean , yeah , if you can afford , you know , high-end clothing to wear every day out to the supermarket , like wherever you're going , then and you can afford your Botox or your hair done or all those types of things that affords you a certain level , a certain look , look , I would love to get my makeup done every day . Well , maybe not , but you know what I mean . Like I look totally different when I have my full face of makeup , right , like professionally done , right ? If I had a stylist , you would see me looking a completely different way and maybe have different perceptions about me , right , and so that affords you those things , but those are technically masks around it . If you can afford to pay your full ride for an Ivy League education and then the benefits that come from those associations , then it actually puts you in wealth , puts you into a circle that you are out of or you know you don't have the rules to the game . That is technically America , right , there's , there's rules to this stuff , and if you learn how the one thing about America to some degree , is , if you learn how to play the game , you can have your come up right .

Karen McFarlane 20:28

Getting access to those rules is really the issue , and then not only getting access to the rules , access to the resources to actually play to win is a real issue , and so a lot of those things that we attribute are because people can buy them . What you can't buy and going back to the White Lotus example , which is what I wish this woman meant , I think is I don't know if they're the right people , is I don't know if they're the right people , meaning I don't know if they're good hearted people . Right ? That's really what you should care about . Right ? How are they ? They can live any way they want to . That's what anybody has a right to do in America , but how does that showcase itself to the world ? I'm not saying they have to give away all their money for it to be . Oh , they're good people . I'm not saying that , obviously , I would love them to Feel free to share .

Karen McFarlane 21:34

There's that phrase . I think I'm getting it part right . But money talks , wealth whispers .

Brittany S. Hale 21:40

I think I'm getting it part right .

Karen McFarlane 21:41

But , like money talks , wealth whispers right and so you see the rich people . They wear their money very visibly and some of the richest people that we see well , the real wealthiest people we see have no labels right . They're unseen . Some of the professions that we mostly attribute to wealth right you know , may actually make less money than the plumber next door .

Brittany S. Hale 22:16

Exactly , exactly . I mean , you know , back in the day , right to be an entertainer , to be an actor , was embarrassing , it was a mark of not having one . Or if someone from a wealthy family decided to be an actor , for shame .

Karen McFarlane 22:38

Yeah , yeah .

Brittany S. Hale 22:40

Yeah , right . So , going back to the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills , when Sutton says I think my wallet , is right , is bigger than Dorit , right ,

Being a Good Person Regardless of Wealth

Brittany S. Hale 22:54

and there's a , really I thought it was fascinating , because it's reality TV , you know , and of course they're not encouraged to break the fourth wall . But when you have at least three cameras on you at all times and you think about the fact that most of the people watching don't have what you have , mm-hmm , right , most of the people watching Sutton , her wallet's bigger than theirs , right ? And so then I just thought about this to say , huh , I wonder how people viewing this , who are fans of Sutton , if any part of them , felt stung or felt shocked or annoyed or surprised by this reaction . Or is it that this is my escape from my life and they're bought in and they're all on her side ? What do you think ? I mean people who are on her side , all on her side .

Karen McFarlane 23:58

What do you think I mean people who are on her side are on her side . I mean , here's the thing . I mean what she said might actually be the truth . Her wallet is bigger than mine . That's fact , right ? I can't get out of the fact , right ?

Karen McFarlane 24:15

I even made a comment earlier about how she got her money . As a matter of fact , I'm going to play devil's advocate to myself , right ? Which is like , because I said that she probably shouldn't even be saying anything because of how she got her money from her husband . However , she was in that marriage , she did run the household , raise the kids , and that's something we talked about on a previous episode , about women's in-home labor not being no worth being put to that , the right amount of worth being put to that , and so whatever she received is the value that she's supposed to receive , based on that agreement , for what she put into that marriage .

Karen McFarlane 24:56

So I'm taking my little snide comment back because you know I need to correct myself . So , at the end of the day , you know , I don't know if it's true for Dorit maybe it is right so but it's true for many people , like you said , and how much she got her money doesn't matter . This just goes back to being obnoxious about it . That or money doesn't matter . This just goes back to being obnoxious about it , like are you a good person about what you have , right ? Because , let me , I'm just talking about me . This is , this is just a plug for me , okay , like if I was a lotto right I , if you won the lotto , are we still doing the podcast ?

Karen McFarlane 25:37

We are still you . No one will know I won the lottery . Okay , Okay , you would not nothing . Well , hold on . My makeup might be better , but most things are not going to change for me . You might .

Karen McFarlane 25:57

I might say , hey , let's go on a trip to X , y and Z . I got you right . You will experience nice things , but you will never feel any type of way about them , right ? You will never feel less than because I have more than you , right , because I'm also a giver have more than you , right , Because I'm also a giver . So , unless you feel awkward about getting stuff , but I'll try and make you not feel that way . So there's that . I also have this dream of paying off people's mortgages and stuff like that . Yeah , because I believe home ownership is important . But I would be more of that wealth whispers person . You won't see labels all over me . I'll have a nice pocket books here and there , but you're not going to see . You know what I mean . There might be little touches , if you know me . So , yeah , that's kind of how I feel about it .

Karen McFarlane 26:49

If the tables were turned at this age in my life I'm not saying at 25 , I would have been like that , but at this age I'm more chill about those types of things . You know . I'm not saying I'm rich or anything like that , but I know that people didn't understand how I moved Right . Um , and you know there were certain things that I that I could do or did or little like this is why I wouldn't change that much Right , but that they would be like she got money Right , and that doesn't mean I did , I just there's a , there's just the way that I moved the things that I chose to do Right , to do that people prescribed something to me . I wasn't broke , that was clear , but I just really just want to be a good person at the end of the day . That's just my take .

Brittany S. Hale 27:53

And it sounds like being a good person through your lens isn't dependent on it , doesn't depend on the wallet , but it's when provided with those resources , you're going to use however you have . Whatever you have , it's still using it to support others .

Karen McFarlane 28:15

And I'm not going to throw it in your face like Sutton threw that in her face . So my issue is really with her attitude about it Rather than having it . Rather than having it , Because you're allowed to have whatever it is . Of course , yep , do whatever you want with it , right , but you don't have the right to throw it in people's faces . I think that's right . That's my yeah yeah about you .

Brittany S. Hale 28:44

I mean I I agree with that . I think it's the behavior . So you know I love to get really into conflict and just nitpick and so I'll deeply analyze . But when I saw that I saw someone who was very prickly , very defensive and went to what she perceives she being sudden perceives as jared's weakness which is her financial situation .

Brittany S. Hale 29:20

I saw someone who felt again like she was on the back step . She needed to go on offense and say something hurtful . What I thought was even more interesting was Dorit's response . You know , typically there are people who would have gotten up running from the table crying , screaming , whatever it was , and that wasn't Sutton's response . Sutton just said I mean Dorit's response she just said , okay , that was really low class . Internally maybe she recoiled , but externally it just kind of rolled off of her back and it seems like it bothered the rest of the people at the table more than Doreen .

Brittany S. Hale 30:13

In conflict , when you're faced with that gap between what you want and what you're experiencing , if you're emotionally intelligent and I think Sutton varies in her emotional intelligence there the situational awareness would have you take in to say is this how I want to show up to people who are my friends and some new people ? Right , there might've been people there and she's not familiar with . Is this the impression that I want them to have of me and of how I view my resources and how I view people with the lack of resources ? And that to me was to your point was the concern . I think had she taken a beat , it wasn't worth it .

Karen McFarlane 31:04

Well , that's why Erica said something , right , because I mean , what Sutton probably doesn't know I'm sure she does not know it , no one knows everyone's finances is you have offended more than just to read at the table , right and so to your point , right , like she should have just taken a beat and just paused and been like , okay , this comment although I'm mad at this person has reverberating effects , and so that's , I think , why Erica responded . Well , no , she said this comment that she said earlier , and that's when Sutton said what she said . But I'm sure at least Erica , at the table at the minimum right , felt some type of way about that , right . And when Dorit just said nothing , that was pure cancerian as far as I was concerned . Yeah , there was no more fighting with this woman .

Karen McFarlane 32:02

She is now complete . She went so incredibly low , to a place where Dorit felt was the lowest , that she could possibly go Even . You know , there's nothing as a matter of fact , if they were not on this show , I'm convinced Dorit would never speak to Sutton again . Yeah , that would be it . Yeah , shut up .

Brittany S. Hale 32:24

And , at least from what we've seen in the coming episode , sutton is still the one who's bothered by Dorit not speaking to her Mm-hmm ,

Handling Conflict with Emotional Intelligence

Brittany S. Hale 32:46

and so I thought that was a really interesting twist in what she her action , that she wanted to kind of just reassert her power , what she believed her power to be , which lies in her wallet . It didn't have the intended effect , because she's still seeking attention , approval , a connection with this person that she's just insulted .

Karen McFarlane 33:01

Yeah , and I think it was also like a power move on Dorit's part . You know , in I'm not going to use the word resolving the conflict , but just ending the conflict for her . So you've gotten to a point where , at least in this moment , that you're not going to mend it because this person has gone to a place where you are not willing to go . There's also probably I'm just going to add the cancerian part in that she has more information that she could say she can go lower , but she has made a conscious decision to stop speaking because the next words out her mouth are going to be pure vitriol . Right , that's going to be really hurtful . I'm speculating based on her zodiac , but regardless , there's no need to continue that conversation .

Karen McFarlane 33:52

I think that's an important lesson sometimes in conflict . Right , it's that you don't have to resolve everything right away in that moment . Sometimes things need space , as much space as it needs , and so you can come back on an even platform and talk through those issues . They were not there and also in front of the audience , where people could . Even just even having an audience creates a different dynamic , and then the element of people chiming in and adding to that creates another layer , although sometimes I feel in the Real Housewives that but some disagreements would be helped by people providing perspective , truthful perspective , because you have two people that have seen something very differently . Sometimes people are lying Right , and then you can have some relatively neutral third parties come in and reset what was seen or what was said by both right , and that kind of happens in a very soft way . But sometimes I think it needs to happen more directly and that's what frustrates me sometimes about the Real Housewives . But again it's all about the drum .

Brittany S. Hale 35:16

I know . I still think that they should just give us a call . Andy should just give us a call and say you're better equipped to break this down . We're happy to do it , andy , we're happy to do it .

Karen McFarlane 35:33

You know , well , I'm sure the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills , et cetera , et cetera , etc . Because we have Atlanta , start just starting . So that's going to be very spicy going forward . You know , um , and you know people in the world just give us all sorts of things to talk about , so we'll just keep doing it . I love it all right well , I know you'll be watching the next episode with me , so absolutely .

Brittany S. Hale 36:04

We'll keep you posted . And again , folks , I understand it's a challenging time we are I mean , I'm a millennial , so I feel like my whole life has just been a series of unprecedented times , but we have more . I'm Zanex and I feel like every piece of progress is gone out the window consider it a act of useful rebellion to seek joy , to laugh , to connect , in spite or maybe because of everything that's going on . So I encourage you to do the same totally .

Karen McFarlane 36:50

I'm now like inspired by the meme that's going around . That's like that says the world is falling apart , but black people out here learning line dances . Let's continue to have a little fun in the middle of the chaos absolutely .

Brittany S. Hale 37:11

Oh , before we go , I just have a funny thing . Yeah , I was in a home department store and I had Nina with me and she was like in my jacket , so you just see her little head popping out , and this guy stops me , and English wasn't his first language . I understood what he meant . But he says you know what race is your dog ? My first thought was man , you know , race is on everybody's mind . And then my second thought was man , you know race is on everybody's mind . And then my second thought was like she's black . Obviously , like what ? This is a black girl . But um , he meant to say you know what ?

Karen McFarlane 37:53

breed is she ?

Brittany S. Hale 37:55

but yes , the sheen , but yes . My daughter ?

Karen McFarlane 38:01

Forget the breed business , she's Black . How many names she got ? Is she a true Black dog ?

Brittany S. Hale 38:08

Yes , exactly , she has a ton of names . She's Boo Boo , Beautiful Girl . You know tons of them , Right ?

Karen McFarlane 38:23

I just look at her now because she had black . If she's black black because she's bougie black , but she's black black , she would have . Uh , nina asaka marie brown , oh , I haven't talked to you about her middle name .

Brittany S. Hale 38:34

You know she she does have a middle name , and when I called the vet and they said what's her first about her middle name ? She does have a middle name . And when I called the vet they said what's her first name , her last name ? And I said you're forgetting her middle name . So yeah , she is a black female , we are all .

Karen McFarlane 38:49

Americanized

Finding Joy Despite Everything

Karen McFarlane 38:50

here Right , she is a black female .

Brittany S. Hale 38:51

All right .

Karen McFarlane 38:52

Miss Mina Did we do okay , Mina , because you woke up .

Brittany S. Hale 38:56

Yeah , that's true . Yeah , yeah , she's like okay , I'm trying to go back to sleep .

Karen McFarlane 39:01

Exactly Alright , until next time . Until next time . See ya , bye , nina .