Karen McFarlane: 0:32

Hi Brittany, how are you? I'm good, I'm good. Welcome everybody back to the D-Word. Yes, do we have our special co-host with us today?

Brittany S. Hale: 0:46

We do. She is hanging out. She took her bow out of her hair, but now she's resisting being lifted, so she's happy.

Karen McFarlane: 0:54

But she's here.

Brittany S. Hale: 0:54

That's good. She's executive producing from underneath the desk, but she is now. She's resisting being lifted, so she's okay, but she's here, she's all right. She's, uh, executive producing from underneath the desk perfect.

Karen McFarlane: 1:05

Well, you sent me something super interesting today from reddit files, right? Yes? Yes you want to give a little overview of I.

Brittany S. Hale: 1:18

So I find reddit to be a really fascinating place because, if you're unfamiliar with, reddit, is essentially a messaging board where you can create what's called a subreddit about anything. So you have fandoms from books and movies and you know there's a harry potter fandom. You have people sharing um temperature blankets. You know where people will they'll they'll crochet these blankets over the course of the year according to the temperature. For that we, anything that you want or can think of it's probably on on Reddit. But Reddit has a specific subreddit that is called Am I Overreacting? And in the particular, am I Overreacting that I showed you.

Brittany S. Hale: 2:08

A young woman was asking other Redditors about whether or not she was overreacting to her fiance. Now I will really quickly. Just, she says that she's gotten an argument with her fiance regarding the federal financial aid freeze. So, if you're unaware, there recently has been a freeze for federal financial aids like Pell Grants, so on and so forth. And so she says that she's receiving a scholarship, but she also uses the Pell Grant, which goes towards her cost of living rather than tuition. And so her fiance is in the Navy and he hasn't deployed, he hasn't even finished his training, he won't even go away for quite some time. But she's sharing with him her challenges. She's left leaning. He is heavily Republican. So when she says, hey, you know, our president froze Pell Grants and FAFSA and I'm concerned about my financial aid, they have this exchange back and forth and it gets tricky, karen. It gets tricky, so I don't I'll pause there.

Karen McFarlane: 3:37

Yes, yes, Well, you're right, it's tricky. I think you know there's two distinct things happening in this thread. One is you know their debate between you, know the effects of the freeze and how, uh well, how these government subsidies in a way work, and how and who it affects. And then there's another underlying tone is the the relationship and how he speaks to her. So correct I just calling that out. We're not going to talk about their relationship in that respect. I don't think right, like no, no, I think it's. Actually we can sum it up to say that we both agree that he shouldn't speak to her that way.

Karen McFarlane: 4:23

Right, that's a different situation to the people we love yes exactly so you should be evaluating her relationship based on his, his tone and remarks, and it's interesting they're having this entire conversation via text despite being in a relationship, which I think is a little bit weird. They should probably have this conversation Definitely a generational thing, yeah. Yeah, but it's more about the sentiments that give you kind of an understanding of how this one issue can be looked at so differently from two different sides.

Brittany S. Hale: 5:00

Yeah, and so I want to just call out a few of his messages, because the underlying tone is that she's somehow undeserving and that she is asking that there's not any sort of reciprocity in the granting of Pell Grants right, which ostensibly are to create a space where people can receive education, eventually become professionals, you know, work hard, pay their taxes, so on and so forth, and that's part of the social contract that we have right Is that we're mutually invested in our own collective well-being.

Brittany S. Hale: 5:48

And so for her partner he says it's effing crazy for some working taxpayer to have to foot the bill for some 2 million youths meaning people who also receive financial aid to go to college, just because you can't afford it. Mind you, this is her fiance, so this is someone who also is more personally invested in her and has prior knowledge about her being a low income person. Funding will not cut taxes for me or you, and that is the issue. And so he says you know taxes for potholes, roads, government paychecks, et cetera. He says that benefits the American people, you going to college, doesn't?

Brittany S. Hale: 6:50

He says you being able to go to college doesn't stop my tires from effing blowing up. How the eff do you expect other people to pay for you to go to effing college? That is effing the R word, which we do not use, and he says that way of thinking really pisses me off. And again, this is someone who is in the armed services. And so she says you know, oh my gosh, why should I pay for your tires? Your military pay, your benefits, right, which you know goes to which is? You know, taxes do allow for defense spending, which Congress determines how much defense spending. But whenever we look at the budget, we know that we are the country that spends the most when it comes to defense spending. But nevertheless, he says there are plenty of other hardworking Americans barely making it by and they have to pay for you. And she says I pay for them. And he says well, I keep you from getting effing killed. I keep you from a Chinese man R-wording you. And I say R-wording because this also goes out on YouTube and I don't want us to get censored, but a very specific type of assault, right, exactly. He says I keep you from a Chinese man our wording you.

Brittany S. Hale: 8:31

And so this was the moment where I said, huh, okay, this is as American as apple pie, let me explain. Let me explain. Is apple pie? Let me explain? Let me explain, because this narrative, right, that this person who is he's speaking to his fiance, right, but this underlying narrative, that one, you don't deserve anything, that there is no social contract violation and harm that will come to the most vulnerable of us, or the people who are, quote, worth protecting, which are ostensibly white women, right, white American women. And so the idea one is just like wait, who? A Chinese? Why would we're talking about her being able to afford her master's program? How did we get to her being assaulted? Why is that something that you?

Karen McFarlane: 9:58

would present to her, and so specific.

Brittany S. Hale: 10:02

Correct. So, like, clearly, you're projecting onto her a very specific fear that you have. But this fear isn't as unfounded as we would think, because it immediately made me think of the very first blockbuster, which was the Birth of a Nation blockbuster, which was the birth of a nation, which was the first film that was viewed in the white house. Woodrow wilson right, had everybody around come, let's view it.

Brittany S. Hale: 10:34

And if you've not seen the birth of a nation, it is an incredibly divisive film filled with stereotypes, but chief among them is in the film, uh, a woman is a white woman is assaulted by, uh, you know these, these very violent, very crazed black men, right, and in the film they are not actually Black men, they are white male actors in Blackface, but they are portrayed to be these sex crazed demons, almost right. The only thing that they have on their mind is that they want to violate white women, and we have seen this over and over and over and over again. So you have birth of a nation. You have, both before and after birth of a nation, what's called misce having sex with, or Asian women, or Hispanic women through line right of this very specific fear that's made its way into legislation, entertainment and even into intimate relationships. So I saw that and that's why I had to share with you. So I want to know what you think.

Karen McFarlane: 12:38

Well, first of all, that was such an amazing breakdown of the psychology behind that right, and it's scary in so many ways because that particular fear has permeated through hundreds and hundreds of years.

Karen McFarlane: 12:57

Despite it being false as a matter of fact, I'll go so far as to say you know, that might just be some projection, right, because if we look obviously we look at history some of the most violent people have been Europeans.

Karen McFarlane: 13:42

Colonizing and conquering other countries have their own conflicts and tendencies, right, but they're outweighed in many ways in what Europeans have done throughout history. And I don't know how we shift that narrative because it has become so ingrained in the culture for discrimination and oftentimes hatred, and that hatred that manifests itself into physical violence. And it's scary that someone in our military who is supposed to be sworn to protect this nation is isolating his views around certain groups as being more worthy of protection, like you said, than other groups, and we're all paying into that same system. So what does that mean for non-white people today and tomorrow? We already know what it meant for them yesterday and it just keeps proliferating this same false narrative. So that moment that you've pointed out is so incredibly important in understanding the psyche of certain white men and why they feel and act the way that they do. But how do we get them to see us? See all of us as equal whole, citizens deserving of the benefits of government, the benefits of society, and also worth protection.

Karen McFarlane: 15:47

The benefits of society and also worth protection.

Brittany S. Hale: 15:48

Right, because he understands on some level that taxes go to situations and things that are for the common good, like he references his tires blowing up and whatever. But he sees himself again.

Karen McFarlane: 16:35

He's not even out of training. It will be years before he's actually deployed, but he only sees his service as a means of protecting a physical asset, his property, in her sexual identity. Yeah, and it's also a very selfish point of view, like you said, it's a me, me, me point of view. You talked about the social contract, right, he doesn't make the connection, although she tries to explain it in the thread that her receiving this grant is not just free money. It's going to be paid back in dividends through her education, through her earnings, through the increased taxes that she's going to pay to her contribution to society.

Karen McFarlane: 17:10

He makes this point about no one should have to pay for it. If you can't afford it, go to trade school or wherever else. And he makes the point that welders make $150,000 a year. I mean that's true, but there's also this thing called choice, and you should not be prevented from having the opportunity to develop and use your skill sets in the way that you think will best serve your family yourself, your family and possibly society. And so you should be limited by the amount of money that you have in your pocket, is it's a truth, but when there are opportunities to uplift yourself and give back, then why is that a bad thing?

Karen McFarlane: 18:01

And her other point about look, they're taking it away, but it's not as if your costs are going to go down Right, like miraculously. Oh, you get to pay less taxes Fantastic. That's never going to be the case. So where's the money? You should be asking yourself. Well then, if they take that away, where is that money going? Is that going into more defense funding? That might be cool for him, right. Is his pay going to go up? I don't know. He also says people can just go into the military. Those are obvious choices, but you just don't want to be limited in your choice. So I think it's sad that people don't understand that it's probably better to have people educated, happy and fulfilled than to have them desperate and unfulfilled, because that leads to a negative cycle that actually affects society and may actually affect you one day personally in your own backyard.

Brittany S. Hale: 19:03

Absolutely so perfectly stated. Because what we have here is this ongoing fear of inadequacy to connect with one another, to live in communities where you can get to know other people, get to know other experiences, that everybody can contribute to the tapestry of America. Because America doesn't only belong to one group, but one group. You know and so that's really the challenge the traditions and the values that they are sworn to protect, including freedom and service Service. You look at a group like the ACLU which will say I may not like what you have to say, may not like what you have to say, but I will protect your freedom.

Brittany S. Hale: 20:32

To say it Right To his. He may not like that people are receiving financial aid to go to school, even for his own fiance, but he will fight, not not only for her. You know ability to not be violated, but he should fight for her freedom to pursue her education. But that doesn't come up for him and he says I'm here fighting on the front line so that this Chinese man doesn't come and do this thing to you, instead of saying I'm fighting so that you can go to school and so that you can enjoy this and we're kind of hopping over the very real possibility that he doesn't want her to be educated. He doesn't. Maybe he doesn't believe that that's her role or that's her place, because even though, again, these are ostensibly two people who are headed down the aisle, it's like this is a you issue.

Karen McFarlane: 21:35

We'll figure it out. Correct. There was none of that conversation. It was just like, well, you can't do it, go to wellness school.

Brittany S. Hale: 21:42

That's a you problem, right, and so we've become adversaries instead of finding the bridge to connect not only back to each other, but what we want for ourselves and our country.

Karen McFarlane: 21:56

Can I ask what could be an obvious question? I mean, it's a great question. Yes, are we at war with China right now? So depends on who you ask but in terms of like needing military personnel to physically prevent a chinese man front, I'm trying to understand, like maybe I would make a different connection if we're talking about the middle east or whatever. I'm a little confused, you know. I know we're in like digital wars or cyber wars, right Right right, but like a technological cold war maybe.

Brittany S. Hale: 22:38

But yeah, to my knowledge we've not been invaded. Yeah, yeah.

Karen McFarlane: 22:46

So how is he? I'm just, I'm really I'm trying to understand his mindset, Like, how is he preventing there?

Brittany S. Hale: 22:51

are Chinese Americans. You know, we just celebrated the lunar new year.

Karen McFarlane: 22:57

Okay. So the military on American soil arresting Chinese people from acts they may do? We're in minority report land, Okay.

Brittany S. Hale: 23:12

I was just going to say that sounds exactly like minority report and that sounds that sounds dangerous and if we don't take care we could very easily get to that point. Yeah, you don't want past to become prologue, right? I mean, we had Japanese, we had Japanese internment camps.

Karen McFarlane: 23:32

You're right. You're absolutely right. No, I'm really trying to understand, like I mean, I'm laughing about it, but I could I could be missing something that I don't know that's going on. I just find that a little there's a disconnect there.

Brittany S. Hale: 23:46

Yeah, I will, I'll go back. So the information that she provided does not share any sort of military insight into where we stand with being invaded, nor do the screenshots. So, yes, we have limited access to the information, but I don't know.

Karen McFarlane: 24:13

Details matter in this case, right when he's trying to make his case. I don't understand. And look, I could also argue about the roads and the potholes. Just drive around them. Why should I have to pay for a pothole, Correct?

Brittany S. Hale: 24:31

I don't have children, why should I have to pay taxes? Right To allow for children to go to school? In fact, having served on a board of education right? These are the types of questions If you don't have have children, why do you want to serve on the board of education?

Karen McFarlane: 24:50

true, my child has grown. I already paid my dues. Why do I have to, you know, keep paying school taxes like? Why do I do that? Yeah if I never go to this you know.

Brittany S. Hale: 25:00

And so again, if we get to this point of hyper individuality, which unfortunately, has been what I would say one of the biggest challenges to this nation and one of my biggest gripes is we're so focused on the individual, we're so focused on the self that we forget that we are a nation, that we should all be working toward a collective good.

Brittany S. Hale: 25:32

What do we want to have the freedom to? If I choose to have a child, I would like to have access to safe healthcare. I would like for my child to have access to a good education that allows for them to compete, eventually, right and in a global marketplace. I would like for my child to be safe and that's why I would like for them to have the freedom to learn and be free from threat of any sort of physical harm.

Karen McFarlane: 26:08

Yeah, and I want even if I don't have a child, didn't have a child and I have one, but he's grown I want all the children around me to have those things too. Okay, because the opposite of that is they're uneducated, they're unemployed and again that leads to bad things in my neighborhood, right? So I have wholly educated people around me that can have critical thinking skills, that can, you know, make their money, keep up their homes right, because you need money for these things, you know, keep up the economy in my local community, in my state, like all of those things create economic vitality and personal protection and safety and longevity for families. And so we can't just think about ourselves and just go for Delph, right, like, we need to think about the greater community that we're in, absolutely about the greater community that we're in, but unfortunately that doesn't happen.

Karen McFarlane: 27:16

People want to parse out certain things, and part of me understands that this is all predicated, for the most part, on money and the pressures that people are having. Things are getting really expensive and when you can't afford to do the things that you want to do, whether it's buy eggs, which are absolutely ridiculous or go on your annual vacation, right Then you start to feel resentful of all the things that are putting pressures on that, and then the blame game starts to surface and we have to be really careful not to do that and really understand the different factors contributing to those different economic pressures that you're experiencing and figure out a way that where we all can work together to make some improvements but it's never going to be completely fair, right, that's not how the system works. I mean look at insurance, right? Yeah, I mean, how can people pay for the sick? That's how it works, for example. Look at insurance, right. I mean, how can people pay for the sick? That's how it works, for example.

Brittany S. Hale: 28:36

I'm sorry, no, please go ahead.

Karen McFarlane: 28:38

No, no, no, no. Just giving life insurance is the same way. Or home insurance, right? The homes that never need it pay for the ones that do need it. That's just how that particular system works.

Brittany S. Hale: 28:48

Correct. All I was going to say was what you just described sounds like what it would mean to make America great again.

Karen McFarlane: 28:58

See, this is why they need to talk to us. We've got all the answers.

Brittany S. Hale: 29:01

You know there is always a bridge and so really and truly again, very often I don't know if you've heard this growing up, but having grown up with military folks I mean, I had a Marine as a father right I've often heard feelings aren't facts. But what I want listeners to remember is that feelings can become facts because the feeling of inadequacy leads to a feeling of fear, which leads to a feeling of hatred, which leads to divisive thinking, which leads to divisive behavior, which leads to divisive actions, which leads to divisive legislation and all sorts of collective harm. So this feeling of inadequacy really has to be dealt with by those who are feeling inadequate and instead of outsourcing blame and outsourcing that feeling onto the Chinese man, the mythological scary Chinese man, or the mythological scary Middle Eastern person or the mythological scary Black person, it needs to be dealt with here it needs to be dealt with here In words yes, it's not anybody else's issue.

Karen McFarlane: 30:39

Yeah, I think that's the perfect note that we could leave people with, although I will say in a very lighthearted way that, if you're a cancer, oh yes, feelings can often be facts feelings can often be facts, and those feelings are rarely wrong. That intuition with some exceptions. That's not everybody. That's not everybody. Is these two cancers on the phone right now?

Brittany S. Hale: 31:11

Elon is a cancer, we don't blame him. We don't blame him, we push him out of the show.

Karen McFarlane: 31:17

Oh yeah, like I said, he's too on the pod right now, so you know.

Brittany S. Hale: 31:21

Yes.

Karen McFarlane: 31:24

I said phone earlier. We're not on the phone. So that was great insight, brittany, and actually I hope people replay that last bit and and really take that in, because that's, at the end of the day, what we need to realize. So thank you for that.

Brittany S. Hale: 31:41

Listen and Reddit did not pay us. So you know if, if Reddit would like our insight, we are happy to share. Yeah, but yeah, thank you, karen, for actually reading it and kind of going down this journey with me.

Karen McFarlane: 31:59

Always this is random, but I love random and it all connects back. It does All right, brittany, until next time, bye, bye.