Brittany S. Hale: 0:32

Hi Brittany, hi Karen.

Karen McFarlane: 0:34

How are you Good and hi Mina. She says hi Again for those listeners. This is Brittany's new. She's not a puppy, she's a dog. Pomeranian, Beautiful brown fur.

Brittany S. Hale: 0:50

Yes, she's really upset and ready to go back to sleep. If you can't see, I am holding her in the crook of my arm because she refuses to sleep on her stomach, so she likes to sleep on her back and it's easier for me to hold her while we're recording.

Karen McFarlane: 1:12

Sounds good to me. Mine is taking a nap on the couch, splayed out on the couch. Both of these dogs have no bills, right.

Brittany S. Hale: 1:20

Not at all. Not at all. We just accrue bills on their behalf, exactly.

Karen McFarlane: 1:30

They're living a privileged life, very much like the people that we're going to discuss today. Oh yes, I am so excited about this episode so we promised people that one day we would talk about something other than equity, which is really about the Real Housewives, the whole franchise. So Brittany and I are like completely obsessed with these franchises. Brittany's a little bit more invested than I am because I've just started certain ones, okay, but she's reeled me in to more than what I was watching before. We'll have to send this episode to Andy at Bravo.

Karen McFarlane: 2:16

Oh yes, let's definitely do that. I understand. So just in case there's people listening that don't watch the Real Housewives, this I don't even know how long this has been going on. I feel like it's more than a decade. No, it's definitely more than a decade.

Brittany S. Hale: 2:37

Definitely more than a decade, almost two, I think. The oldest season is maybe from about 16 years ago.

Karen McFarlane: 2:46

Wow, I've probably been watching for that long. That's insane, but anyway, it's a franchise that follows housewives from different cities in their daily lives and with their interactions with each other. And in the casting I think it's very creative in who they put together and how they choose this different cast of characters for each city that they have shows for and the dynamics that flow between them. Some of them are friends from their current life, some of them they don't know. They're welcomed into the group and it is rich with emotion and drama and sassiness and some cases a lot of luxury and flair and in other cases, more down to earth in that respect, and we get to see how they experience each other in different environments, both in their hometown but also in terms of the model. They also go on trips together and if you've ever traveled with someone, you get to really know people when you travel with them. So 100. So wait, maybe we should name all the ones that we watch.

Brittany S. Hale: 4:09

Okay, I would just say Housewives is my favorite sociopolitical, anthropological treatise on race and class and socioeconomic status in the United States.

Karen McFarlane: 4:29

But he makes it sound like oh good.

Brittany S. Hale: 4:34

OK, when I can make a case for it, we can bring equity into it. So, I watch Orange County, check Beverly Hills, yep, salt Lake City, miami, definitely Atlanta.

Karen McFarlane: 4:56

Definitely.

Brittany S. Hale: 4:58

Atlanta, of course, potomac.

Karen McFarlane: 5:04

One of the best. And New York, yes, and Jersey and Jersey of course Wait.

Brittany S. Hale: 5:13

is that all of them?

Karen McFarlane: 5:13

I think that's all of them. I think that that all of them I think, that's, I think that's all of them maybe well, there's also they also do these spinoffs the ultimate girls trips so yes, there's a yeah right, right, those don't air.

Brittany S. Hale: 5:36

Uh, they are fairly regularly but they have. They're relatively new to the franchise and if you're listening and saying, oh my goodness, she watches eight shows, most of them do not run concurrently. Right, it's very cyclical, so at any given point in the year there's probably one or two, with the exception of this time. Right now there are four cities airing all on different nights. But it's been a fun time because there are so many airing right now you have to have your outlets when you deal with this work.

Karen McFarlane: 6:11

So this is something we're going to have to share it's heavy work.

Brittany S. Hale: 6:22

It's election season, yep, you deserve a little joy, and I say you can start with the Housewives.

Karen McFarlane: 6:26

Now for someone listening.

Brittany S. Hale: 6:27

Karen, which city would you recommend as an intro city?

Karen McFarlane: 6:34

Okay, my favorite yeah, my favorite Housewives show is number one is Beverly Hills. That's my favorite, okay. And there are 14 seasons or this will be the 14th or 15th season coming up and a lot of Well, you'll see the cast morph over time and build over time and grow, which I think is really interesting. But there are some staples there, like Kyle Richards, who I first saw her in Little House on the Prairie yeah, her name is in Little House on the Prairie. Her name is Little House on the Prairie, which I sometimes still watch. Comes on one of those channels, I don't remember which one. So she's been like a mainstay since the very beginning. She actually might be the only original cast member now that I say that out loud, that's true.

Brittany S. Hale: 7:37

Her sister Kim Richards. She was a child actor. Escape from Witch Mountain, that one is yeah, it was her first appearance. Um. So again for any of you who is thinking, oh no, this is for a particular there, you are guaranteed to see someone that you know. Garcelle Beauvais is now on there. So if you watched the Jamie Foxx show in the 90s and 2000s, she's there as well.

Karen McFarlane: 8:14

And in this new season, if you are a marketer and you follow the marketing world, then you know Bozema St John, who's the former CMO of Netflix, and she was at Beats and she's all over these workplaces, right, she's joining the cast, which is a whole plot twist, I feel, in her career trajectory, so I'm super excited about this.

Brittany S. Hale: 8:32

Absolutely. We love a plot twist in career and so okay. So I think Beverly Hills is a good entry point again, because if you, whether you love property or interior design or fashion or travel, or law or politics, there's something there for you.

Karen McFarlane: 8:58

Definitely. What about you? What would be your good first entry point?

Brittany S. Hale: 9:02

That's a good question. I would say, yeah, Beverly Hills is probably a good one to get started on. I believe Orange County is the oldest, but Beverly Hills is that. You know, I'm a Jersey girl, so I think Jersey is also a great one. It's a very specific perspective. There are tons and tons of different facets to New Jersey Jersey, but if you're looking for a grounding in a very Jersey, very Italian focus, Jersey's your outlet.

Karen McFarlane: 9:49

I just started watching Jersey, as you know, so I'm brand new to that. I was all in on New York because it just felt very familiar, being from New York, Right, I could see the places where they were. I could actually go to them if I wanted to, so it felt very much like home, in particular Beverly Hills. And New York does focus a lot on luxury, right, being from the upper classes and stuff like that. So If that's what you're looking for, which brings the drama, right, it's really great television from that perspective, right, and you get the East Coast, west Coast vantage points from those two and very different personalities in how they operate, how they talk, how they approach life, which again goes back to how you've made this whole Real Housewives thing very academic and an anthropological study. I love it.

Brittany S. Hale: 10:58

The way they communicate, the way they handle conflict even their perception of wealth the social capital, because you will see, there are certain people who have money but are not networked and you will see other people who may have a little less money but have these really deep, really rich networks. I'm thinking of potomac where, you know, you have some people who are wealthy, some people who are definitely upper middle class or doing well and have come from these really highly networked Black American societies that you know. If you know, you know.

Karen McFarlane: 11:44

I agree. So like Potomac in DC I mean sorry, potomac in Atlanta, there was a Real Housewives of DC at one point.

Brittany S. Hale: 11:52

Yes, Short one point, yes, and it was short lived because I believe one of the housewives faked her way into an event at the White House, something to that effect, but it was very short lived. It's not available. I don't know what happened, but there we have it.

Karen McFarlane: 12:34

It's not available. I don't know what happened, but there we have it, presented in a certain light, right In terms of their opportunity, their networks, their ability to grow, start businesses and just be amazing powerhouse women in the community. And we also. You know, if we see Black women on television, it's not often not saying that it doesn't happen. It's not often not saying that it doesn't happen that we see the softer sides of them as well. We might see the normal tropes that are presented out there, but we don't see them have rich arcs to their life where they can navigate conflict, triumph, be soft, be hard, like see all the different emotions and thought processes that we go through. So those two shows actually deliver that for you, which is kind of nice.

Brittany S. Hale: 13:20

Yeah, that's a great point Because, again, like you said, they are powerhouses and they're vulnerable and they're presented in a multifaceted way. Right, they are mothers and daughters and friends and siblings, and you get to see the nuance there. They're philanthropists, and then they all have their own internal struggles depression, anxiety, right, anxiety, right. So you get to see a very nuanced version outside of the archetype of a strong black woman or even the archetype of a housewife, right, it's just kind of this. The show's turning off on its head because you get the sense of these spoiled, of these spoiled, bratty, trophy wives who just sit around and spend all of their spouse's money, and that's not necessarily the case. These are enterprising women, they have businesses, they have homes. They're not all married to men. They're not all married to men, right, they're not all married. Yeah, they're not all married right.

Brittany S. Hale: 14:36

So, and I guess, some people push back right. They say why are you in Housewives if you're not a housewife? But to your point, you see all different types of families. Yep.

Karen McFarlane: 14:50

And they also have philanthropic endeavors that they intentionally way on the show through the actual experience and then oftentimes through that experience much like in our own lives, right, real world lives, right those experiences are a catalyst for us taking up the mantle on some of those issues on a more consistent or permanent basis, and so they use their platform in a very positive light to bring that type of awareness, which I think is good. I mean, they've covered things from fibroids that affect Black women, right? What other issues? There's so many different things. One has Internal health Internal health, right. Mental health, yeah, absolutely.

Brittany S. Hale: 16:00

And also estate planning. So on Orange County, for example, you have a woman who has a very lucrative insurance business and she is always talking about preparation and these types of things. You see women in some of the cities who have to deal with a lack of preparation because you know their partners pass away or leave. And so when you have women who've been dedicated to being a homemaker and a stay-at-home mother for 20 plus years and their partner either dies or divorces them, how do you support yourself? How do you support your children? What does a future look like for you? How do you identify yourself? How do you go about searching for your identity? So I would say that it's much more than your typical reality show, in my opinion.

Karen McFarlane: 17:02

You're right. I mean, look, let's also keep it real. There's a lot of mess, all right, that happens.

Brittany S. Hale: 17:11

Listen, balance in all things. Right, there has to be balance. But the formula for a reality show, as I understand it, is okay, you have the intro boom get to know these women Over the next few episodes. You slowly chip at the facade that they're presenting to you, but each episode there's going to be building conflict, and the last 10 to 15 minutes is going to be the mess right. Then you'll have conflicts resolved over a period of time, and there's always like you said, always a trip.

Brittany S. Hale: 18:02

So one of the women on the show will sponsor a trip. Usually it has to do with something related to a business that they're promoting, some sort of appearance that they're doing. Sometimes it is for philanthropic work and you know, you see them let their hair down, figuratively and literally, on the trip there's always some sort of fallout, and then there's the finale. The finale usually culminates in some sort of event, dinner, something, and then they have the freeze frame and they show you what they're up to.

Karen McFarlane: 18:44

Right Going forward. Yeah, because this was filmed some time ago, so they give you present day case.

Brittany S. Hale: 18:50

Right, and then like four to six months, yeah, ahead of when it airs something like that.

Karen McFarlane: 18:58

And then there's a reunion that comes after, which recaps all the drama that happened throughout the whole season, and sometimes you're like, well, I thought we resolved that, why are we talking about it again? But you have to talk about it again on the reunion.

Brittany S. Hale: 19:14

Ok, because you get to see Think about yourself in every day You're. How you show up is not always the same as how you're actually. What your initial impression of is Right, right. Your intent does not always match your impact, and I forgot to mention every episode. You have confessionals, so you get to see what every castmate thinks about you, thinks about the situation with an air of honesty that they may not have in the moment. So, just for clarity, confessionals are literally.

Karen McFarlane: 19:53

Let's say, brittany and I were on the reality show, right? I would be filmed by myself telling you my actual thoughts that are in my head, unfiltered, about a situation that happened, right. So let's say, if Brittany apologized to me about something because there's always apologies, right, apologies about something and I would go in the confessional and be like I didn't believe her, I didn't think that was genuine, even though I accepted it. Okay, that wasn't genuine, and here's why. And I would talk crap about her in the confessional Right. And then so think about this. You come back and watch that show. You thought it was all resolved. Brittany thought it was all resolved, but I was talking crap about her in the confessional, and guess what? Conflict ensues once again and shows up on the couch for the reunion Right.

Brittany S. Hale: 20:45

Then Mina's like goodness, I can't believe this is happening.

Karen McFarlane: 20:51

And, on top of that right, these reality show stars. I think they're required to do this, but they go on social media and the blogs and they do interviews all throughout the season. And you know, using that same scenario, I'm still mad at Britney Right. And I go and I talk to a reporter or you know whatever on the blogs. Talk to a reporter or you know influence whatever on the blogs and I say, yeah, she didn't really mean it. Here's why and I might reveal something else that I knew or whatever the case may be, and that's out there in the press. Brittany reads that and now more attention has surfaced, because I was in my feelings in the moment.

Brittany S. Hale: 21:37

Emotionally reactive, not displaying emotional professionalism, which you can learn Exactly.

Karen McFarlane: 21:45

And then that comes out later on on the couch at the reunion. So it's never ending and even if it's resolved, when they watch the show again, it kind of brings, and they've squashed it. It can bring up feelings that you thought were resolved right All over again watching. So, um, the things that hurt you, they don't ever really go away. You just forgive them, but that hurt keeps playing out and playing out on social and, you know, regurgitated by fans over and over again. I think it takes a very strong constitution to deal with that and be on this show For sure, for sure.

Brittany S. Hale: 22:41

The phrase that you will always hear is move forward. You just want to move forward.

Karen McFarlane: 22:59

And, as we know, you can't necessarily move forward without going back to the source of the harm. That is true. I don't know if I'd be a good reality show participant.

Brittany S. Hale: 23:05

I would lose a lot of friends if I said all the things that were in my head, but you might be a fan favorite because you might be hilarious.

Karen McFarlane: 23:15

I don't think I want to risk it, but I definitely advocate people watching and joining us in this discussion. We can keep having these ad hoc discussions when things happen Right when things are a little too tense.

Brittany S. Hale: 23:38

There's always it's comforting to people, especially now if you're listening and you're a professional. You may not admit to other professionals that you watch. But we just happen to be bold and so we're going to do it. But it is attention reliever right, because you you understand that there's a controlled situation, there's a controlled conflict and ultimately the resolution is going to look a few different ways. So there's some sort of reassurance, similar to a sitcom, that there's going to be a problem, a conflict, a resolution, the end.

Karen McFarlane: 24:23

You know what too. You can also use it to evaluate your own life, right? So, as I said, most of the time these people are highly privileged, right In some way or another, and it may differ from your own experience More than likely it does, because everyone's different anyway and you can use that to make yourself feel better about what's going on in your life, because the drama is real, but you do learn some conflict management skills from that. You have fun, but you take lessons from what you should and should not do and what the potential fallout could be short and long-term. So there are life lessons in between the entertainment.

Brittany S. Hale: 25:08

Tons and tons of what you should not do.

Karen McFarlane: 25:14

Well, the very first, you'll learn how to give an apology, right? So here's a tip that I'll leave the audience with when you give an apology, don't start an apology with if I have, it's a good one, okay. The if is a problem, because if you're apologizing, that means you had Okay. So important tip. From me to you and it resonates through all of the series. It's a problematic statement If.

Brittany S. Hale: 25:59

For sure, right For sure. Problematic statement if for sure, all right.

Karen McFarlane: 26:05

Well, next week starts another run of many of the series, so you have time to watch starts.

Brittany S. Hale: 26:12

Yes, you have tons of time to catch up.

Karen McFarlane: 26:18

Enjoy. Watch it on Peacock. If you need to catch up on past seasons and go to Bravo. We're not doing it, we're not being paid by Bravo, we just really like the show. But you can go to Bravo to learn about all the different stuff we're open to it. We're totally open to it, just genuine fans and we're trying to do a service Andy, if you need a guest host or someone to explain conflict resolution. We're available there we go. Alright, brittany, I'll catch you on the other side, see ya.